Gazans gather around the Gaza Soup Kitchen at the Al-Shati refugee camp.Courtesy Gaza Soup Kitchen
United Nations-backed food security experts say the “worst-case scenario of famine is currently playing out” in the Gaza Strip, home to roughly 2 million Palestinians. One of the few organizations still on the ground trying to feed Palestinians at risk of famine is the Gaza Soup Kitchen.
Abe Ajrami is one of the Gaza Soup Kitchen’s leaders. He was born and raised in Gaza and now lives in the US, where he helps coordinate the organization’s food aid. “This is manmade starvation,” Ajrami says. “There are thousands of people who are starving because the Israelis decide to use hunger as a weapon.”
On this week’s More To The Story, Ajrami sits down with host Al Letson to talk about the Gaza Soup Kitchen’s extraordinary efforts to help prevent famine in Gaza, the debate over whether the Israeli government is committing genocide against Palestinians, and whether a two-state solution is still achievable.
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This following interview was edited for length and clarity. More To The Story transcripts are produced by a third-party transcription service and may contain errors.
Al Letson: What are you hearing from the people you know in Gaza right now?
Abe Ajrami: What I’m hearing is a call, and people are praying, “Oh, God let the judgment day start.” I mean that’s really a common prayer is that people, this just, end this whole thing.
Can you unpack that for me? What do they mean when they say that?
Pretty much saying, let the end of time happen. Let’s, as faithful people believe that this whole life will end one day and we are all going to meet our Creator and there’ll be heaven and hell and all this stuff. And they’re saying just let it happen now.
And another thing, they often see those who were killed already in the war are the lucky ones. For example, I lost my oldest, one of my sisters, 72 years old, Halima, second week of the war. And it was a shock when it happened. And now my brothers and other siblings are looking back at it and saying, “She was the lucky one. We’re the one that’s unlucky to go through this hell for the past two years.” So that’s, that describes how bad things are happening. Everything is a struggle. Staying alive is a struggle. Finding food is a struggle. Finding drinking water is a struggle. I mean, just every minute of it is a brutal experience.
When I hear you say that and that phrase, it makes me feel like the people of Gaza just have no hope anymore, that this is like the status quo and it’s going to remain this way.
And that’s very true. The first one, the first things started going people, that’s not their first rodeo. So they thought, “Okay, we’ve been through this. It’s going to last for a month or two, going to rebuild again.” And then things were getting worse and they thought, “Okay, maybe the world would wake up and intervene to stop the genocide.” When the ICT, for example, took the case and declared that the war must stop, that these are indeed war crimes and issue arrest warrants for Netanyahu and his defense minister, people thought that’s the highest legal entity in the globe. Something must happen. Well, nothing happened since then. People will tell you this, talk about human rights, this talk about Western democracy, this talk about the Geneva Convention is meaningless because none of those conventions and laws help stop the genocide.
You call what’s happening in Gaza, a genocide. And I think there’s a debate. A lot of people have been pushing back on labeling it as a genocide. What would you say to them?
It seems to me only there are very few places in the world where that description is disputed and mostly in the American politics and to some extent some UK parliament. But the whole world, the United Nations is calling it genocide. Amnesty International is calling it a genocide. And so even so, Israeli human rights organization recently called it a genocide. So all these legal scholars calling it, and I challenge anyone who’s not even just, any ordinary citizen, look up the definition of genocide and see what’s happening in Gaza and look me in the face and tell me this is not a genocide.
I mean there are two things. The actions and the intent. The Israelis are not hiding their intent. As far as yesterday they said, “Our intent is to force Gazans out and settle Gaza with more Israeli settlements.” Their defense minister, before the war started, he said, “We are going to shut water, shut medicine, shut food, shut electricity of Gaza.” That’s collective punishment. That’s a war crime. So when you’re talking about as of yesterday, 60,000 Palestinians get killed, around 20,000 of them are kids, 70% are women and children, and there are thousands are still missing under the rubble. It’s obvious that the Israeli government is using food as a weapon.
And when you hear the peace talks and they say, well, Israelis agreed to let air drops happen, drop in food or allow certain countries to supply Gaza with food, that tells you they’re the ones shutting the borders from entering food. So you’re talking about 2 million people who were intentionally starved by another country.
I’ve seen a lot of talk about widespread hunger and the famine happening in Gaza right now, but a lot of times when I see the news coverage, they talk about the famine as in like this just happened. Like there’s nobody really responsible for it. Suddenly Gaza is now in famine conditions. Can you speak to that specifically?
Right. This is artificial. This is a manmade starvation. People aren’t hungry. They are made hungry by the siege and the Israeli bombing and closing the Gaza. It’s mind-boggling to hear my Jewish friends, the slogan of, “Never again.” And I love the slogan, I have several Jewish progressive friends who are great advocates of human rights and they’re using the history of the Nazi and the Holocaust to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Unfortunately, it’s happening in Gaza because the irony is that you have thousands of people who are starving to death and right a mile across the Egyptian border, there are miles and miles of trucks full of food. So that’s really, it’s extremely sad that the world is watching this live on TV, seeing the irony of you get food on this side, plenty of food. And right across the border there are thousands of people who are starving because the Israelis decide to use hunger as a weapon to subdue the population and force them to leave Gaza.
I want to talk a little bit more about your organization and how it works. How many food distribution centers does the Gaza Soup Kitchen currently have operating?
Currently we have 11 feeding centers and the numbers change based on the situation. There are many factors. It’s not your typical, you go to Christ’s kitchen and it’s open and you eat a meal and eat and leave. It’s very hard. If you see the pictures, these guys either in a school that turned shelter for families or they’re out in the street behind demolished and rubble and they’re cooking.
In addition to those centers that feed the neighborhoods where they at, we have meal delivery to hospitals. We send meals to the staff and patients at the Al-Ahli Hospital and most recently to the children hospital, Nasser Hospital. We also have a medical clinic that’s staffed by physician and every once in a while we have a classroom for kids that gives some basic education and some entertainment services.
And how many people are running them?
Total employees averages between 60 and 65 people between the chefs and the workers that manage, and let me just expand on this. The whole process is extremely difficult. I mean, you collect donations here, that’s the easy part. Try to get that fund into Gaza is very, very difficult because all the banks were forced to shut down. So there is no standing financial system in Gaza. So you rely on money exchangers, just people who have some money and you go through, whether it’s Egypt or Turkey, any third party to get that money into Gaza. So we try to talk with farmers, with people who are providing what’s left of ingredients and vegetables in Gaza about accepting money transfer from a phone app to a phone app in lieu of cash. And we’ve been working for several months now. So there is trust relationship or they’ll accept the payment and people sometimes realize they’re helping their own communities, so they’ll help us get food one way or another. So, that’s just a cash part.
Trying to find fire logs is a challenge. So you try to scavenge a few logs here and there and wood often from houses that were bombed, try to find that wood and light because there is no propane, there is no electricity, no gas. So that’s how you fire up the pots is wood logs. And then find chefs who know how to cook. And sometimes the hardest part is how do you control the crowds? Because more to our, the three things we can never cross is one, you want to provide good quality food, decent food with dignity, and definitely treat people, these guys who cook are neighbors, we cook for our neighbors or friends. We’re not some third party coming in to Gaza to provide food. We are it. We are the Gaza people, so those who cook are locals, the chef is local, everybody that works. So that’s, the hardest thing sometimes is how do you control the crowds?
You’re talking about hundreds of hungry people and the lines extend so far. And initially the first few parts, everything goes well when those in the back start realizing there is only half a pot left, so I may not get to fill my plate and our instructions to these guys, and they know it. If somebody is so hungry that they’ll come attack and grab something, let them take it. He’s not being ugly, he is hungry. So that’s really the hardest part is finding enough food for these people and trying to feed as many people.
Do you have any idea how many people you’re able to serve each day?
On average, each feeding center feeds about between 250 to 400 people depending on the prices. And what, because that a hundred dollars can buy you a hundred meals if the prices are decent, it may buy you 20 meals if the prices are high, but on average is somewhere between 250 to 500 give and take depending mostly on the prices.
The UN says more than a thousand people in Gaza have been killed since May while trying to access food. And that most of those deaths, more than 760 have been near distribution sites run by an organization called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. Let me ask you specifically about the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. It’s an Israeli and US-backed organization that was started this year and meant to replace UN efforts to distribute food. What are your thoughts on that group?
Right. Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is as close to humanitarian as the devil is close to enter into paradise. I mean, this is Gaza Humiliation Foundation in reality. And as recent as last week, a US ex-military employee, he worked in Gaza, came out and blew the whistle on what’s happening there and informed the world that actually these guys were shooting at hungry people. So people get killed, many get injured, it’s a scam. It’s really a trap where thousands of people get in. It’s such a humiliating, if you look at the videos and the footage of showing people just piled up, stuck between fences and those are starved people given the choice, you either stay home, die out of hunger, or you walk kilometers several miles to get to the GHF Feeding Center and you may get killed there. So these are the choices.
And I talk to people, I talked to my sister the other day and she said, “Guess what? My son walked several kilometers to the GHF site to get flour.” And I said, “Why? Isn’t that crazy?” And she said, “What were we going to do?” And I said, “So what happened?” She said, “I don’t know.” She said, “I’m still waiting. I’m hoping that he’ll come back alive.” I mean, that’s how bad the situation is, and it is just the whole thing is shady. You cannot feed people while drones are hovering over them and the bullets are flying over their heads. So that’s really, it’s a horrible thing that adds to the Israeli war crimes.
What does the Gaza Soup Kitchen do differently to try and protect people seeking food?
The thing is, just like any organization or charity, when you go seek food at Christ’s Kitchen or any place in the world that provide food, those who are giving the food aren’t carrying guns and aren’t masked. So what really sets us apart as an organization is that we’re purely local organization. Everybody that works in Gaza is part of the community. So when my brother goes and works in a feeding center, he’s feeding his neighbors, he’s feeding his friends in the neighborhood. So everybody knows everybody. Those who provide the food, the ingredients, those who light the fire, the chef that’s cooking and responsible for the recipe is a local in the community, and that’s what sets you apart. People trust our guys and our guys are part of the community. So not only we provide food, but we provide food with dignity.
So recently France, the UK and Canada announced support for a Palestinian State. I’m just curious, do you think that’s genuine support, political theater or something else?
It is way overdue. I mean, this should have been done many years ago. And ironically, even the US government for many years throughout all these administrations believe that the two state solution based on the 1967 border is the way to go. But yet when the issue is submitted to the Security Council to recognize the State of Palestine, the US government veto it. I mean, that’s your own stand. Why don’t you recognize Palestine as a state if you believe the two state solution is the way to go? So that’s way overdue.
Second is that either two opinions. I talk to my family and friends then they’re people who think, “Oh, that’s great. That’s better late than ever.” So they think it’s a good step forward. Others believe it’s just a stunt. It’s a fake cover for the Arab countries like Saudi and Bahrain and those countries to normalize relations with Israel because it would be very shameful on the eyes of their own people. You want to normalize relation with Israel, Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, so shame on you.
So they’re trying to show, well, actually we gained a lot of good things for the Palestinians. Look, we’re working with France and Britain and Canada and all these countries to recognize Palestine as a state, about the same time we have to recognize Israel. Well, if you recognize Palestine as a state without further actions, it would be meaningless. What recognition would change the status of those hungry people in Gaza? What is the British and Canadian and French recognition would help those farmers who losing their land in the West Bank?
So based on that recognition, if they truly recognize Palestine as a state, then those Israeli soldiers carrying the guns and roaming the streets of Gaza become illegitimate. It becomes an occupying force of another land, of another country. Those countries need to put sanctions on the occupying force, just like putting sanctions on Russia for occupying another country that’s called Ukraine. So that political recognition of Palestine as an entity has to translate into punishing Israel for occupying and subjecting Palestinians to all this brutal war and rewarding Israel if the Israeli government agreed to this two-state solution by opening borders with Arab countries and normalizing relationships. But the mere recognition itself, it carries symbolic political, a good thing that’s happening, but unless it translates to change the life on the ground, it won’t be that important.
Yeah. Abe, thanks so much for talking to me today and also thank you for your work in feeding people who are facing an extreme crisis right now.
Thank you, sir. If I may add-
Please.
And just something that I really shared with the American Jews and the Israelis themselves. I mean, we can continue to kill each other to the end of time, or we can sit together and say, how can we build a better future for our children, our grandchildren? It’s not about Hamas and it’s not about anything. It’s everybody knows that the source of the issue is that there are people called Palestinians who live in under occupation, and people throughout the world will pay a price no matter how high, to gain their freedom and get their dignity and have the right to self-determination. How long would it take the Israelis to realize this and the earlier and the faster we get to that point, see each other as humans, not as enemies, I think the closer we can get to a solution.
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